@kristofertm It's been an interesting mix. The author almost always recoups the investment, but it isn't always from book sales. In some cases book sales are all that matter (about ~2k books to break even), but often it's leads for their business, credibility for speaking gigs, etc. You can check out the case study of our first client as an example: http://bookinabox.com/case-studies Obviously the accomplishment of getting something published is nice, but for most clients we want to make sure there's also a clear financial ROI to justify the cost of the process.

@kristofertm First off, I just want to acknowledge you Kris, you originally submitted BIAB to PH, but we had it reserved for this day and PH took your post down. You should get a red H on your name for this one :) Answer: 1. Right now, the majority of our clients are entrepreneurs, speakers, consultants or C-level executives who see this book as an investment in something. For example: Entrepreneur: They see their book as a lead gen for their business, or a way to gain status, credibility or authority in their field, to help them either attract talent, raise money, or get speaking gigs. Speakers: They see books as a great way to book more speeches and charge more for their speaking. Also, it gives them something to sell at their speech, and a social object for people to have to give them ways to create WOM. Consultants: Books are a great way to find and sign new clients, and great for establishing credibility and authority. C-level executives: Having a book on your resume is a fantastic way to go from low to high C-level exec, and again, a book can help their company and career by establishing credibility and authority in their field. 2. Ego Reasons: We absolutely have some client that don't see the book as an investment in a business or career, but instead use it for purely "ego" reasons. I don't see that as invalid at all though, because some of histories greatest works were done for "ego" reasons, e.g. The Autobiography Of Ben Franklin. In fact, I wish more of the accomplished amazing people on earth would write books, I know I would have loved to have Steve Jobs autobiography. And I can think of 20 people on Product Hunt alone that I would do our BIAB service for free to, just to hear what they have to say (@mcuban and @pmarca for example).

@tuckermax I hear you on all of those. Also agree on the ego front. I wish more great minds would take the time to write. Hopefully Book In A Box will make that happen!

@golocalapps Some good questions, lemme split them out: 1. Marketing: There is no "right way" to do book marketing, you have to start with the goals of the author and the book itself, and then work out from there. We currently offer a Book Launch service, which is what you are talking about. That is just about getting some basic media and attention for the book so that it has the requisite social proof for the author. What most people seem to forget is that many books don't need to sell copies to be a success to the author; they are about establishing credibility, authority, and driving lead generation. Most of our clients are people who see a book as an indirect way to generate ROI, not a direct way. 2. Distribution: There is no way to guarantee to get a book in stores; it is up to the retail outlets if they will carry it. We actually DO have a distribution deal with Simon & Schuster, and we can get books into retail stores. That being said, retailers only want to carry books with a high probability of selling lots of copies, which excludes most books. We don't advertise this service to authors because we don't want them thinking they will get it, when in reality very very few will ever be eligible. Talking about this to authors feels like a "bait and switch" to me, and I hate that. 3. Yes, most big authors would do better without publishers. In fact, I created a publishing company to serve those authors, and already sold it. The story is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tu... 4. After Publishing: Again, your assumption is that authors always care about books sales. Thats just not the case. Only professional writers who make their living off of books care about books sales. Most of our authors care about the impact of the book on their business--and in that metric, we are doing great. You can read a case study of our very first client here: http://bookinabox.com/case-studies

@tuckermax ah, ok. I was assuming it was book sales oriented, not marketing. Coming from the book sales and review side, that's how I view it. Book as credibility works, but only if it looks good. I see so many poorly formatted, edited and designed books, but the authors/publicists don't recognize the stumbling block that does for the author. Getting into distribution just sucks too. We get a lot of authors trying to get book reviews from us just to have the "Reviewed by" tag so they can get their book into a local B&N (most require some review recognition for it.) Be interested in chatting w you about some of that. We've been doing that since 2008 and may be able to offer that to your clients as part of your package if you're interested.

@golocalapps Yeah dude, please reach out and let's talk. It's easiest to start with Zach, he does that: zobront@gmail.com

@eawharton Hey Eddie, this is a great question and something we've spent a lot of time thinking about. Our initial feeling was that the beauty of this project was that we wouldn't need to be the gatekeepers, choosing which books "deserve" to get made. I tell clients all the time, if I had to decide whether books were worth publishing, 50 Shades of Grey wouldn't exist. But apparently 100 million readers disagree with me. So what do I know? As we've gone on, though, we've learned that there are a few exceptions. Of course clients that are difficult to work with are a no brainer, but there's two other criteria I look for in every client before accepting them: 1) They have enough to say: It doesn't matter to me whether I agree with their ideas, but if they want to write a 200 page book and don't have the depth of knowledge to create it, it can't happen. We help people turn their ideas into books, but we don't create the ideas for them. 2) The book will help them reach their goals: Again, it's not my job to determine whether those goals are worthwhile or not, but I won't let anyone delude themselves into doing a book that won't accomplish their goals. If someone wants to write a story about their mom's life and their goal is to get filthy rich, I'll explain that it's not a likely outcome and we won't work with them. Whether the return is financial from book sales, financial from other activities, or emotional, I want to make sure every client has a clear path to a positive ROI. The truth is, the worst thing we could possibly do is put ourselves in a situation where we deliver an amazing end product and the client doesn't accomplish their goals. Standing strong on these two criteria is what keeps that from happening. Writing that answer actually helped me clarify a lot of things in my own head, so thanks :)

@cardmagic Thanks dude, I'm really happy we were able to serve your needs. EDIT: That sounds like an awful corporate response. I didn't mean it that way, I'm honestly just stoked it worked well for you.

@stttories Obviously you are welcome to your perspective, and I am not even mad that you put this comment here. In fact, I think it's great, because it gives me a chance to address this issue, so thank you for that. Plainly put: Nothing about my writing has ever been about humiliating women. Ever. The proof is simple: Over half of my fans--the people who paid money for my books--were women. And still are. If my books were about misogyny or humiliating women, then none of those women would have given me their money or wasted their time on my writing. To say my writing is about misogyny is to call millions of women stupid, or at the very least, to dismiss their opinion in favor of yours. I respect the opinions of women (and men), even the ones I disagree with, and would never dismiss them like that, nor should you. And beyond that, everything I have ever done in my life has been about making women like me. You can ask my wife about that if you doubt it, she'll tell you. And though you say that a bit of Googling does wonders, apparently you missed the many, many pieces written in praise of my work...by women. You may not like my writing, and that's totally fine. But your characterization of it is wrong. EDIT: As a side note, I'd like to point something out: Not liking me as a person is fine. There is plenty not to like about me. And wanting to point out that I wrote things that you disagree with is also cool. Like I said, I think it's great to bring that subject up, I wrote those books, you have an opinion, they are both valid facts, so let's address it. Every issue has multiple sides. But what is not cool is flagging this company profile. That is actually the only thing going here that is hateful. And quite frankly, it is hateful towards free speech and this community. Of course PH is not a government entity, and they are welcome to remove or add anything they want. But to try to get something removed simply because *you don't like the person who did it* is really really hateful in ways that are very problematic. In fact, I can't think of anything more problematic to creating a vibrant diverse community of free thinking makers and problem solvers.

@stttories @tuckermax Wow.

@tuckermax I respect that you've chosen to defend yourself in this manner and with this approach, as it is your right. I'm sure you expected my comment, or something in the same vein, and thus already had this type of response prepared in your head. The beauty of feminism is that I support other women and I don't apply my definition or strain of beliefs to them. I am not insulting women by saying I was personally offended by your work and found it to be pretty terrible towards the women depicted, and found it be misogynistic. I'm not going to rebut your other points, as I don't feel they're worth addressing. But I will say that my comment being "far more hateful of women than anything" you've done in your life is a gross misrepresentation and indecency, and I don't agree with you at all.

@tuckermax I wasn't trying to get the post removed, and I even mentioned that when I submitted the flag. I flagged the post to make the moderators and team here aware that a member of their community has a concern they want to express. Tucker, please don't draw a line between me flagging the post and me trying to hurt this community. I'm a very active member of this community, and I love it and have enjoyed watching it grow. I've made amazing connections on here and I think my presence is generally appreciated. I commented to contribute my perspective to this community. Understand that this is a place where people come together to discuss products and their makers. You've spun my initial comment into presenting me as a detriment to this community, and it's unfortunate you feel that way. I'm going to step away from this thread now because this line of conversation actually IS detrimental.

@stttories I have no desire to upset you or turn this into a contentious debate, and if my response came off that, my bad. You and I agree on one thing: product hunt is a great community to discuss products and services. How about we just stick to that discussion in this thread? If you really want to discuss my books or how you think they portray women, im happy to have that discussion, but let's do it in a better venue, and not bring those tangential discussions here. My email is tuckermax@gmail.com

@hallojona Yeah, its in the piece too, sorry: 15k is the starting price. We have packages that can go up to about 25k, but most people use the 15k package. Yes, thats expensive, but far cheaper than ghostwriting, and you get more. Two other options if this is far too much money: 1. Book: We have a book coming out soon that will describe our process in detail, so you can follow it and do your own book this way. Writing is very hard for most people, but talking about ideas is much easier, and I really think this method can help people even if they do the whole process themselves. 2. SaaS: Also, we're in the process of seeing if we can turn this into a SaaS application, so that people with very little money can be guided through this process by software. Not sure it will work, but we are trying.

@tuckermax Thx. Sounds very nice and i think 15k is quite good. Do you have a newsletter or reminder for the upcomming book?

@hallojona I'm not sure what you mean when you say a "reminder for the upcoming book"?

@tuckermax "We have a book coming out soon that will describe our process in detail..." - can i reserve it? Or is there a newsletter that reminds me when the book is published.

@hallojona @tuckermax We're working on the book for the process, but have a link to the book we wrote for book marketing here: http://bit.ly/1MP1ZQa

@ulisesorozco Well, we are here if you want to finally turn your ideas into books. It's literally the point of our company. And Product Hunters get $500 off.

@tuckermax love the medium post. suggest everyone reads it to learn how the book in a box process works. a few q's: how are you handling all that growth? are you being very particular about the book projects you take on -- and what's your criteria? are you able to evaluate pretty early on what's a best seller - how predictable is it for you now that you've written and seen so many? also, fyi everyone - we're going to interview Tucker next week at @jason LAUNCH conference, so we'll look at this thread to ask him some great q's.

@tuckermax as someone on the outside looking in, i also have a few questions about publishing -- are there comparisons between publishing houses and record labels? what do you think the future of publishing looks like? is the business/economics going to change the product (books) itself - are there ways to make MVPs of books? will writing programs in the future look like accelerators/incubators (or perhaps they already do?) what will the role of books be in the future (are you a doomsdayer, as Jonathan Franzen is, or are you more optimistic?) as someone who loves to read and write, but also understands business, what do you think about all this?

@eriktorenberg Good questions: 1. Growth: We have intentionally throttled our growth to give us time to really develop and refine the process, and to find and train the best possible freelancers, all to ensure a quality product from our end. There would be no quicker way for this to fail than to put our mediocre books. We have even had to delay some joint venture projects with large organizations, because they were going to push *too many* clients to us, and we weren't ready. 2. Who do we work with: We do reject some authors, but only if they don't have enough to say to make a book, or if they seem very rude or difficult to work with. This has only been about 5-8% of the cases so far. Most of our clients are great, and have good book ideas. 3. Projecting sales: We have no idea what will and won't sell well, and in fact, that's the opposite of our job. Trying to pick winners is a fools game, and one of many reasons that traditional publishers are all going out of business. We are a services company that helps authors create books, and we don't actually own the rights or royalties to any of the books. The author owns everything. We are pretty good at understanding whether the book will serve the needs of the client--because not all authors care about having best sellers--and we do spend a lot of time talking to authors about what their goals are to make sure the book has the chance to meet them. Excited about LAUNCH Conference too, should be really fun. Definitely excited to meet @jason.

@eriktorenberg Oh man--great questions, and really long answers. Lemme see if I can't hit the highlights: 1. Future of publishing: It's both bleak and bright. It's bleak for the old school publishing companies. They missed the train on technology, and since they were never created in order to serve the needs of readers, it's too late for most of them. They are already slowly dying, mainly because they cant or wont change. Here's the reality: People love reading and love books, and they prove this by the money and time they spend reading them (and other forms of media). The future is very bright for all the alternate new companies that are trying to develop new ways to read, write, and share information. More people are reading more content than ever. You just have to stop thinking about publishers as they were for a century, simply because that was an accident of history and technology. The publishers of the future will either be completely integrated vertically aligned companies that own every part of the customer experience, like Buzzfeed, or highly skilled service companies that help individuals or corporations do everything they need to create and promote content, like us or any number of others. When Jonathan Franzen is calling the death of publishing and books, he is talking about a very small, specific universe: The NYC publisher and the elitist literary novel. For a century, book publishing has been a rich white mans game, that existed to serve the social signaling needs of a tiny group of Manhattan elites. Nothing else. Seriously--NO publisher EVER cared about business; i.e., actually tried to understand who their customers were and what they wanted to read. They ONLY cared about publishing and promoting the "right" books--books that signalled the right things to the small group of people they cared about. How many stories of what have become classic, iconic books starting as self-published works--because EVERY publisher passed on them--do you have to read about to understand that the publishing industry perpetuated a massive, century long crime against art. My books, 50 Shade Of Grey, the list goes on and on. This is a much longer discussion for a different forum, but we are about to see a huge explosion in books--just like are in music because of the death of labels and photography because of the rise of iphones and instagram--and I think its going to create a golden age of all forms of art that will be amazing for the world, and I'm excited to be a part of it.