What laws define the added level of complexity that systems tend to take on over time?
Terrence Kelleman
21 replies
I've been pondering the way that products and online sales channels have evolved over the past decade.
Simple things like email or blogs have evolved into complex systems. In the same way that newly launched apps have a minimal set of tools and then grow with more complexity over time... are there any rules that guide this in the way that computing function (Moore's law) defines transistors?
Replies
Kenneth Ray@kenneth_ray
Your comparison to Moore's law really resonates with me. It’s impressive how the demand for more functionality seems to grow exponentially.
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I think there’s no single law like Moore's Law for this, but it’s more about how technology and user needs evolve.
I just like apps start with basic functions and expand, systems become more intricate as they add new capabilities and integrations to stay relevant.
Lancepilot
@chaity_okpalanozie yes it's a common thing we witness, from computer programs to the growth of a forest. There is a typical life cycle that we can see - that's why I'm interested in finding out more - that's where there is an opportunity for deeper understanding.
From what I’ve observed, there isn’t a specific law like Moore’s for this kind of growth. Instead, it’s about how technology adapts to changing needs and how developers add features over time, which makes systems more complex.
This reminds me of Lehman's Laws of Software Evolution as systems grow, they become more complex unless active efforts are made to simplify them.
Lancepilot
Thanks @cassidy_doyle for adding this to the discussion!
This is very interesting - I didn't know about Lehman's Law. It feels like in the PH world there are the guiding forces of the market yet few actually understand the dynamics behind the actual evolution of their product at this deeper level.
Thanks for pulling back the veil on this for me and everyone else in the discussion. I think there is more to be explored here. It's facinating to me.
On the wikipedia page the description itself of Lehman's Law says "Over the past decades the laws have been revised and extended several times." - exactly! lol
Brooks's Law could play a role too. Adding more people to a project can increase complexity and delays, especially in software.
I’d point to The Second Law of Thermodynamics in any system, entropy tends to increase over time , leading to more disorder and complexity
Lancepilot
Thanks @amy_english for adding this to the discussion.
Entropy is the great equalizer that is also applying a pressure on systems. The organizing principles of a system are basically fighting that entropy through their simplicity, their natural evolution is to adapt to changes in their environment/demands, those changes add complexity and then we introduce the opportunity for entropy again.
i think Conway's law applies here it suggest that system mirror the communication structures of the organization that design them
Lancepilot
@ella_reye that's fascinating. Thanks to your suggestion I just found "Inverse Conway's Law"
which "asserts the intriguing idea that the structure and design choices made during software development can, in fact, reshape the organization".
The inter-dynamics of these two systems and how they ebb and flow is such an interesting insight - maybe it points to something more profound - that we can't create anything that is not different from the overall laws and principles of the systems in which they are contained.
don't forget bout galls law it sys that complex system evolve from simpler ones, but starting with complexity often leds t failure
Lancepilot
Thank you @harperscott - you've added a great perspective to the discussion - it's interesting that complexity can only go forward, so by default simple grows to more complex (with ebs and flows) but overall the natural evolution is towards complexity.
i would say law of requisite verity o control complex system ,the controlling system needs to be equally complex
Lancepilot
Wow thanks @safaa_bird for adding that to the convo! This could also apply to organizations as a whole as they try to adapt to their own internal challenges of growth and demand. Fascinating! Thanks for sharing
have noticed that user feedback really drives the complexity of products. It's fascinating to see how features evolve based on real user needs.
I always appreciate finding tools that strike the right balance between functionality and ease of use. It’s refreshing when a product does that well!
Lancepilot
Exactly @martin_peters - that's where the motivation for this subject came from.
The complexity that grows to meet the growing demands of a successful product applies pressure on its system. The added functionality also adds increased risk for something breaking like @amy_english points out w the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It's almost as if the product life cycle has a limitation built into itself automatically. Maybe not, but understanding the pressures of these forces is so interesting. Thanks for contributing to the discussion!
My understanding is that systems tend to gain complexity over time due to the combined effects of evolving user expectations and new technological capabilities. As users get accustomed to a system, they start demanding more features and functions. And as the underlying tech improves, there are more possibilities to meet those expanding demands. So the two kind of feed into each other, leading to growing system complexity. That's my take on it, but curious to hear others' views too!
Lancepilot
Thanks for joining the discussion @miasophiawalker that's such an important insight! Realizing that the evolving tech capability itself ads to the evolution as it grows to meet the demands of the users.
These invisible systems are so intriguing and so important to understand in the context of product development - otherwise we're just being pushed around by every wind and current!